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Trades
Mar 11, 2015 16:21:46 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by BigLebowski on Mar 11, 2015 16:21:46 GMT -8
I will not vote as well but I can say I will be spending less time on this league than any of my others. I don't see this league lasting if stuff like this happens
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Trades
Mar 11, 2015 18:56:36 GMT -8
Post by Fade2White12 on Mar 11, 2015 18:56:36 GMT -8
Like I said, unfortunately there aren't going to be any winners here.
It's now become obvious to me that it would better for the league that this be vetoed despite my trade philosophy. It's just not worth losing people over it, which appears to be inevitable if it goes through. I vote veto.
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 6:13:10 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 12, 2015 6:13:10 GMT -8
Pro Veto...2 Con Veto...3 Non Vote...2 (Abstain)
10 responses would be appreciated.
Six pro veto votes are needed to overturn the trade. A non vote is the same as a no vote. Please vote (yes, no, not voting) so that we can come to a resolution in a reasonable amount of time.
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 6:19:50 GMT -8
Post by rookiesandcream on Mar 12, 2015 6:19:50 GMT -8
Pro Veto...2 Con Veto...3 Non Vote...2 (Abstain) 10 responses would be appreciated. Six pro veto votes are needed to overturn the trade. A non vote is the same as a no vote. Please vote (yes, no, not voting) so that we can come to a resolution in a reasonable amount of time. I guess there's no need to continue. There are already 5 no veto votes (3 con and 2 no vote) so it's impossible for the veto to go through. But based on the discussion I've seen, clearly this trade is problematic...
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 7:26:31 GMT -8
Post by Fade2White12 on Mar 12, 2015 7:26:31 GMT -8
Pro Veto...2 Con Veto...3 Non Vote...2 (Abstain) 10 responses would be appreciated. Six pro veto votes are needed to overturn the trade. A non vote is the same as a no vote. Please vote (yes, no, not voting) so that we can come to a resolution in a reasonable amount of time. I guess there's no need to continue. There are already 5 no veto votes (3 con and 2 no vote) so it's impossible for the veto to go through. But based on the discussion I've seen, clearly this trade is problematic... Agreed. Might as well just move forward unless someone changes their vote. You're right, it is problematic though. Almost everyone who chimed in said it was extremely lopsided, and at least a couple have indicated that it going through will likely negatively affect their participation, perception and ultimate future in this league. But there is no mechanism beyond what is currently in place to to combat this sort of thing. The tribe has spoken. Good luck to all in 2015.
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 7:42:34 GMT -8
Post by bwanna on Mar 12, 2015 7:42:34 GMT -8
My thoughts and opinions: - This trade would *not* have been protested by those protesting it if it had been perceived to give a weaker team the better end of the deal. To me, this means the motive for protesting wasn't as much the trade itself, but how it personally affect the protester - i.e., "it will be harder for me to win now". Is it right to *try* to force parity on a league so it will help me or anyone win? Absolutely not. This is a DYNASTY league, with the goal of creating a dynasty
- We all have different evaluations of players and will always have them. I don't value Puig nearly as highly as sportsguy did, even though I drafted him. I still don't. I traded Desmond away last year because I didn't trust him - maybe a mistake, but I still don't. I picked up Iwakuma off waivers last year and traded him because of his inconsistency. Still don't see him as valuable as some of you do. I could go on.
- I've won this league twice, same as Cougs, last year by a single save, in spite of having arguably the strongest team almost every year (check regular season records, check almost perfect season two years ago, etc.). H2H automatically evens the playing field - and it sucks for me.
- I've built a very strong team with a good initial draft, through trades, good milb draft, good pickups, etc. Don't blame a single trade for single-handedly swinging the balance of my team or anyone's team. I've also made some boneheaded trades and drops that didn't seem boneheaded at the time. Fortunately, I've made enough of the other to make up for it.
All that said, if this trade pisses people off enough to give up and bail, then maybe I need to quit, cause I'm very competitive (which makes it fun) and I'm going to try to win the league every stinkin' year.
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Post by jakeharv88 on Mar 12, 2015 8:00:57 GMT -8
Y'all are crazy if you're thinking about dropping this league. Easily the most fun I've had in a non-money league... Just blackball bwanna from trades. His team will die in time
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 8:43:50 GMT -8
Post by Fade2White12 on Mar 12, 2015 8:43:50 GMT -8
Maybe this is just my perspective/opinion and may not be true of others who oppose it, but my problem with the trade has little to do with anything you said, Bwanna:
1. I wouldn't care if this trade was between teams 11 and 12, I'd still oppose it. Your current team, as well as your previous and future success in this league, has zero to do with my opinion. It is the sheer disparity in value between the offerings of team A and team B. Everyone has the ability to run their team as they see fit, but not only should the trade be in good faith, but it should be palatable for the other owners in the entire league. Trades that are blatantly lopsided set a terrible precedent and negatively impact the market. This is true in real sports too. If LAA traded Mike Trout to the Yankees for cash considerations or a B level prospect, imagine the ramifications - for owners, other players, fans, etc.
2. Personal player valuation is entirely subjective, but value is also governed by the market. I may think that Mike Trout is junk (sorry for continued Trout references), and maybe I even value Travis Snider higher, but I would never trade one straight up for the other. The market has dictated partly what these players are worth despite my own perceived value. If the popular perception is that Trout is worth $1 and Snyder a nickel, I, along with most others, would expect that I receive something at least close to that in a trade. So for myself, I think Rockets could have, and should have, received more for what he gave up. On its face, this trade is not equitable in the least - and I think it should at least appear to be. I don't want to play in a purely wild west fantasy league.
3. Again, H2H doesn't remedy an unfair trade. It may if my contention was that you're becoming "too powerful," but it isn't.
4. Bonehead moves, yes - we all have - but not ones that seemed so boneheaded at the time it was agreed to. There's a reason why the market puts Mike Trout at #1 and Travis Snider at #400 - it is based on the likelihood that the player will amass certain statistics. Could this trade turn out to be one that is less lopsided, or even where Rockets is the big winner? Absolutely. But right now, as we sit, what odds would you give for that happening? 50:50? 80:20? Because on its face, this is what the market - the collective fantasy baseball community - predicts.
Keep working towards victory. That's what any and all of us want to do as well. For me, I think perhaps more attention needs to be paid to the costs of victory.
But like I said, the tribe has spoken. But since my motivation is completely different than what Bwanna is insinuating is the case for everyone, I wanted to speak up. Cheers!
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 10:44:15 GMT -8
Post by rookiesandcream on Mar 12, 2015 10:44:15 GMT -8
Maybe this is just my perspective/opinion and may not be true of others who oppose it, but my problem with the trade has little to do with anything you said, Bwanna: 1. I wouldn't care if this trade was between teams 11 and 12, I'd still oppose it. Your current team, as well as your previous and future success in this league, has zero to do with my opinion. It is the sheer disparity in value between the offerings of team A and team B. Everyone has the ability to run their team as they see fit, but not only should the trade be in good faith, but it should be palatable for the other owners in the entire league. Trades that are blatantly lopsided set a terrible precedent and negatively impact the market. This is true in real sports too. If LAA traded Mike Trout to the Yankees for cash considerations or a B level prospect, imagine the ramifications - for owners, other players, fans, etc. 2. Personal player valuation is entirely subjective, but value is also governed by the market. I may think that Mike Trout is junk (sorry for continued Trout references), and maybe I even value Travis Snider higher, but I would never trade one straight up for the other. The market has dictated partly what these players are worth despite my own perceived value. If the popular perception is that Trout is worth $1 and Snyder a nickel, I, along with most others, would expect that I receive something at least close to that in a trade. So for myself, I think Rockets could have, and should have, received more for what he gave up. On its face, this trade is not equitable in the least - and I think it should at least appear to be. I don't want to play in a purely wild west fantasy league. 3. Again, H2H doesn't remedy an unfair trade. It may if my contention was that you're becoming "too powerful," but it isn't. 4. Bonehead moves, yes - we all have - but not ones that seemed so boneheaded at the time it was agreed to. There's a reason why the market puts Mike Trout at #1 and Travis Snider at #400 - it is based on the likelihood that the player will amass certain statistics. Could this trade turn out to be one that is less lopsided, or even where Rockets is the big winner? Absolutely. But right now, as we sit, what odds would you give for that happening? 50:50? 80:20? Because on its face, this is what the market - the collective fantasy baseball community - predicts. Keep working towards victory. That's what any and all of us want to do as well. For me, I think perhaps more attention needs to be paid to the costs of victory. But like I said, the tribe has spoken. But since my motivation is completely different than what Bwanna is insinuating is the case for everyone, I wanted to speak up. Cheers! Well said.
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 10:59:17 GMT -8
Post by bwanna on Mar 12, 2015 10:59:17 GMT -8
I appreciate your opinion, Fade. But to be perfectly clear, there was no insinuation intended on my part - I hope I was very direct about the primary motivation of the protest. You're the first to finally state that's not the case for yourself.
And Fade is right, it's not worth the drama - at the liberty of speaking for rocket, I'll renege on the trade.
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Trades
Mar 12, 2015 20:00:06 GMT -8
Post by aussiedodger on Mar 12, 2015 20:00:06 GMT -8
Outsiders perspective: You guys need to man up. If Bwanna makes a "f'in A" trade, you make a better "f'in A" trade. And then you beat his ass when you face him. All the OH NO HIS TEAM IS UNBEATABLE stuff makes you look like pussies.
Please take this in a friendly way
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Trades
Mar 13, 2015 4:11:43 GMT -8
Post by jakeharv88 on Mar 13, 2015 4:11:43 GMT -8
Outsiders perspective: You guys need to man up. If Bwanna makes a "f'in A" trade, you make a better "f'in A" trade. And then you beat his ass when you face him. All the OH NO HIS TEAM IS UNBEATABLE stuff makes you look like pussies. Please take this in a friendly way Ha, like
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Trades
Mar 13, 2015 4:59:42 GMT -8
Post by Fade2White12 on Mar 13, 2015 4:59:42 GMT -8
Outsiders perspective: You guys need to man up. If Bwanna makes a "f'in A" trade, you make a better "f'in A" trade. And then you beat his ass when you face him. All the OH NO HIS TEAM IS UNBEATABLE stuff makes you look like pussies. Please take this in a friendly way This is the second time we've been trolled in this thread by someone not in the league. Nice to see how popular we are. But no offense, your opinion makes no sense. So if someone exploits someone else in a trade, it should be the goal of the entire league to continue to exploit each other? No thanks. Also, nice to know that I'm not a pussy according to your definition. Affirmation! But Bwanna, I commend you for that decision, assuming it stays. I think it was the most amenable resolution for the entire league, and it avoids a lot of the butthurt that was going to inevitably unfold as the year played out.
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Trades
Mar 13, 2015 6:37:28 GMT -8
Post by bwanna on Mar 13, 2015 6:37:28 GMT -8
Not looking for or expecting any commendations, Fade. Nor am I worried about butthurt, and I sure as hell hope the rest of you men aren't either.
(Meant in a friendly way.)
I'm pulling the deal because of the drama. Sorry rocket, but mostly still disappointed in myself.
Moving on... we need to get these picks moving.
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 13, 2015 6:56:17 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 13, 2015 6:56:17 GMT -8
Outsiders perspective: You guys need to man up. If Bwanna makes a "f'in A" trade, you make a better "f'in A" trade. And then you beat his ass when you face him. All the OH NO HIS TEAM IS UNBEATABLE stuff makes you look like pussies. Please take this in a friendly way This is the second time we've been trolled in this thread by someone not in the league. Nice to see how popular we are. But no offense, your opinion makes no sense. So if someone exploits someone else in a trade, it should be the goal of the entire league to continue to exploit each other? No thanks. Also, nice to know that I'm not a pussy according to your definition. Affirmation! But Bwanna, I commend you for that decision, assuming it stays. I think it was the most amenable resolution for the entire league, and it avoids a lot of the butthurt that was going to inevitably unfold as the year played out. Don't take it personally Fade. There is owner overlap between the two leagues and the other league ain't as gentlemanly as this one. And at least Wrveres hasn't visited here yet.
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Trades
Mar 13, 2015 7:19:31 GMT -8
Post by Fade2White12 on Mar 13, 2015 7:19:31 GMT -8
This is the second time we've been trolled in this thread by someone not in the league. Nice to see how popular we are. But no offense, your opinion makes no sense. So if someone exploits someone else in a trade, it should be the goal of the entire league to continue to exploit each other? No thanks. Also, nice to know that I'm not a pussy according to your definition. Affirmation! But Bwanna, I commend you for that decision, assuming it stays. I think it was the most amenable resolution for the entire league, and it avoids a lot of the butthurt that was going to inevitably unfold as the year played out. Don't take it personally Fade. There is owner overlap between the two leagues and the other league ain't as gentlemanly as this one. And at least Wrveres hasn't visited here yet. Oh no, I wasn't taking it personally. I've been in leagues with Aussie many a time. I was just reminding him that his opinion still doesn't matter.
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Post by bwanna on Mar 13, 2015 9:24:02 GMT -8
Aussie's not trolling - he's my new co-commish.
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Trades
Mar 13, 2015 9:30:29 GMT -8
Post by Fade2White12 on Mar 13, 2015 9:30:29 GMT -8
Aussie's not trolling - he's my new co-commish. I vote veto.
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Trades
Mar 13, 2015 11:21:58 GMT -8
Post by bwanna on Mar 13, 2015 11:21:58 GMT -8
Aussie's not trolling - he's my new co-commish. I vote veto. Figures.
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aff
New Member
Posts: 22
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Trades
Mar 14, 2015 10:44:05 GMT -8
Post by aff on Mar 14, 2015 10:44:05 GMT -8
Hey guys,
Sorry I've been a little MIA lately - I've been working crazy hours at work, and just haven't had the time to check in. I have a few thoughts:
1) Bwanna, I don't think it was necessary for you to pull out of the trade, but thank you for taking the high road nonetheless.
2) It was extremely lopsided, but the last thing we need to do is to have someone whose new to the league getting fried for their original decisions. Sportsguy made more than his share of questionable decisions in his time, which is now that team wound up in that position in the first place, so I don't blame him for trying tp purge it and form his team how he wants. With that said, he still should have asked for more, even if he didn't want those players.
3) Let's all try to calm down a bit. I know tempers are high and it's tough with a few new owners, but this has been a great league with very little controversy for many years, and there's no need to overreact. No one should be quitting a league over a trade like this, whether or not it goes through. New guys - please note that this is very abnormal for this league.
4) Yes, Bwanna's team is good, but that's cyclical. Up until a couple years ago, Cougs and I were ahead, and now he's done a good job at pulling ahead. We shouldn't be upset at him for doing a good job at acquiring players. If you're worried that he always gets the better end of deals, be extra careful in trading with him.
This is supposed to be fun! Let's get back to the drafting, trading, etc.
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