ThirdDay
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Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 10, 2015 11:10:39 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 10, 2015 11:10:39 GMT -8
So maybe we should just declare Bwanna the 2015 winner and shut the league down for a year. I can spend the extra time with BRAL.
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Mar 10, 2015 11:21:05 GMT -8
Post by rookiesandcream on Mar 10, 2015 11:21:05 GMT -8
I just realized that we have a veto system in place.
I have only done this once in all the years I have been playing fantasy baseball, but I vote to veto this trade.
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Trades
Mar 10, 2015 13:55:13 GMT -8
Post by ayebatter on Mar 10, 2015 13:55:13 GMT -8
An outsiders view - I wouldn't have made that offer but I certainly would have accepted it, who among you wouldn't have.
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Mar 10, 2015 14:21:17 GMT -8
Post by bwanna on Mar 10, 2015 14:21:17 GMT -8
An outsiders view - I wouldn't have made that offer but I certainly would have accepted it, who among you wouldn't have. I'm trying to understand the same. There is a veto system in place. And I'll live with whatever - that's fine, rocket came to me asking about those two. Here's another thing to consider - if the roles had been reversed: I had been getting what appears *currently* to be the short end of a lopsided trade, I GUARANTEE *NONE* of you would have complained. You might have questioned my judgement, but no one would be upset. You know it's true just like I do. It also seems a little hypocritical based on someone bragging about trade rape earlier: Also to note, I should have sports guy's 2015 and 2016 1st round pick based on this trade rape: Sportsguy receives: Alejandro De Aza Yoenis Cespedes jake_harv receives: Bwanna's 2014 2nd round pick, Sportsguy's 2014 4th and 5th round picks, Sportsguy's 2015 1st round pick, and Sportsguy's 2016 1st round pick So that sucks for rocket or steelcity That said, whatever the league votes to do is fine with me. No hard feelings, I'll keep looking for deals that will help my team, as should each of you.
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 10, 2015 14:24:10 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 10, 2015 14:24:10 GMT -8
You gonna set up a formal vote thread?
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Trades
Mar 10, 2015 14:26:19 GMT -8
Post by bwanna on Mar 10, 2015 14:26:19 GMT -8
You gonna set up a formal vote thread? Nah, I'll let one of you handle that.
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 10, 2015 14:48:44 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 10, 2015 14:48:44 GMT -8
You gonna set up a formal vote thread? Nah, I'll let one of you handle that. Should be the person that asked for it.
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Trades
Mar 10, 2015 16:11:13 GMT -8
Post by rookiesandcream on Mar 10, 2015 16:11:13 GMT -8
Nah, I'll let one of you handle that. Should be the person that asked for it. I tried to create a thread but the system didn't let me type content. Maybe only admins can? In any event, might as well conduct the vote here in this thread so voters can read some of the things previously mentioned in this thread. My vote is to veto the trade. We need 6 out of 10 votes to veto. Otherwise the trade stays. If you could, please update the vote tally as you respond. 1 veto, 0 no veto
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 10, 2015 16:35:12 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 10, 2015 16:35:12 GMT -8
I vote no.
Veto yes 1 Veto no 1
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Post by rocketdwm on Mar 10, 2015 19:24:31 GMT -8
Here is my thinking:
-Puig is a wildcard. He reminds me of DeMarcus Cousins. Phenomenal talent but I see injuries mounting up (don't see him aging well) and I think his erratic play might not play well with new management in place. I don't want to ride the Puig rollercoaster. Did I sell 60 cents on the dollar? Probably. But I extracted value for a player whom I think will have a decline in value.
-Desmond doesn't fit the profile of players I want. And he is a FA after the season. I see him bolting for the most $ and if he goes to a team without lineup protection, I envision his stats taking a hit.
-Iwakuma was actually the toughest guy to give up in this deal. I wanted to hold on to him but I was not going to have him prevent me from making a deal.
-Drafting of prospects is a crapshoot. Does not matter where you draft but it does matter that you have the most chances to land an impact guy. I acquired additional lottery tickets and hopefully one of them turns into an All-Star.
-I'm not here to assemble the Red Sox. I value Xander due to his pedigree and glimpses of All-Star talent at the MLB level. He had a sophomore slump but should be able to rebound hitting in that lineup and in that ballpark. I think he turn into a better version of Desmond and that transition could happen this year.
-Dustin fits the mold of the player I want. Steady power, solid average and a sprinkle of speed. He is predictable and I need all the guys I can get on this team to be like that. Sportsguy left his team in disarray and I needed to make some drastic moves to turn it around.
-Obviously, if this is a re-draft league, I should be booted out for this type of trade. But I'm thinking long-term and trading in some chips at their peak value to obtain talent that will be an integral part of the team down the road. But do not be mistaken. I plan on a winning campaign this year. And every year after.
Bottom line: Veto should never be involved unless you think it is collusion. And if you have been in a league with me before (as ThirdDay, Fade and Smoove have been), I am not colluder. I want to win. And I will. It's not a popular move and I understand. But I will need time to construct this roster to respectability.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:41:21 GMT -8
Post by bwanna on Mar 10, 2015 19:41:21 GMT -8
... Bottom line: Veto should never be involved unless you think it is collusion. And if you have been in a league with me before (as ThirdDay, Fade and Smoove have been), I am not colluder. I want to win. And I will. It's not a popular move and I understand. But I will need time to construct this roster to respectability. Yup.
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Post by rookiesandcream on Mar 10, 2015 19:45:31 GMT -8
You traded away two borderline dynasty league first rounders and a top twenty pitcher for about 20% of those players' values according to consensus rankings. Yes, veto is mostly used in situations in which collusion is suspected (which I don't believe is the case here) but I also believe it should be used in the event of highly uneven trades that significantly change the balance of the league.
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Post by smoovethug on Mar 10, 2015 21:51:51 GMT -8
... Bottom line: Veto should never be involved unless you think it is collusion. And if you have been in a league with me before (as ThirdDay, Fade and Smoove have been), I am not colluder. I want to win. And I will. It's not a popular move and I understand. But I will need time to construct this roster to respectability. Yup. Pretty much my feelings as well. Although the trade is seemingly lopsided I'm in for no veto.
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Post by ThirdDay on Mar 11, 2015 5:01:59 GMT -8
Pro Veto...1 Con Veto...2 Non Vote...0
10 responses would be appreciated.
Six pro veto votes are needed to overturn the trade. A non vote is the same as a no vote. Please vote (yes, no, not voting) so that we can come to a resolution in a reasonable amount of time.
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Trades
Mar 11, 2015 5:29:22 GMT -8
Post by Fade2White12 on Mar 11, 2015 5:29:22 GMT -8
An outsiders view - I wouldn't have made that offer but I certainly would have accepted it, who among you wouldn't have. Me. Although the trade process is pretty much inherently adversarial with winners and losers, I'm not going to propose or accept any trade that is extremely lopsided. In a long-running league like this, it's just not worth it because polarizing events like this only breed resentment and animosity. I'm not going to risk that (especially if it's not for money ), so I'd work with my trade partner to figure out something that's at least palatable for both of us and the league. It's just unfortunate that this trade was even proposed in the first place because no one is going to come out ahead. We'll either end up with our commissioner and our newest member pissed because it was vetoed, or everyone who thinks it is too lopsided pissed because it wasn't. I'm on the fence about my actual vote. Again, I've always been one for "only veto in the case of collusion," but this trade just ain't good. Like RC said, there has to be some exceptions to this rule. I understand your thinking, Rockets - and you're well within your right to completely purge your roster, but you could have received everything you got just by trading one of those players alone. And Bwanna - the big difference between Jake's trade and this one is that Jake's eventually turned out to be "trade rape." If you look at all of our past trades you'll find dozens of examples of that. But we already know that this trade is like what Spielberg and Lucas did to the final Indiana Jones movie. I'm going to refrain from saying that you should have done what I outlined in my first paragraph, but maybe a bit more negotiating could have been done. So I don't know. I'm either going to vote veto or I'll just abstain from voting. There's just no way that I vote "no veto" to this because I can't find any reason to give it my blessing.
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Mar 11, 2015 5:38:44 GMT -8
Post by revchris8 on Mar 11, 2015 5:38:44 GMT -8
Personally, I'm disappointed to have all this kick off just after joining the league. It's nice to see the thinking behind the trade, even though I disagree with pretty much everything rocketdwm says regarding the valuation of the players. Rookies valuation is much closer to mine - IMO Bwanna has received by far - by far - the best of this deal, and not just for this year.
But that's what is it about - player valuation - which is so hard to agree on. I think this trade is unbalanced; clearly rocketdwm thinks it is fair. And so I can't veto it, even though it seems like it makes 2015 tough for anyone to beat Bwanna.
I do hope, though, that this doesn't result in other teams giving up for 2015. That was the main reason, I think, that my last dynasty league folded - some guys were giving up by May and trading their superstars for prospects well before the ASB. Lots of people lost interest and it ended up killing the league. Really hope the same doesn't happen here.
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 11, 2015 6:31:40 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 11, 2015 6:31:40 GMT -8
Personally, I'm disappointed to have all this kick off just after joining the league. It's nice to see the thinking behind the trade, even though I disagree with pretty much everything rocketdwm says regarding the valuation of the players. Rookies valuation is much closer to mine - IMO Bwanna has received by far - by far - the best of this deal, and not just for this year. But that's what is it about - player valuation - which is so hard to agree on. I think this trade is unbalanced; clearly rocketdwm thinks it is fair. And so I can't veto it, even though it seems like it makes 2015 tough for anyone to beat Bwanna. I do hope, though, that this doesn't result in other teams giving up for 2015. That was the main reason, I think, that my last dynasty league folded - some guys were giving up by May and trading their superstars for prospects well before the ASB. Lots of people lost interest and it ended up killing the league. Really hope the same doesn't happen here. Two things Rev.....this type of disagreement seldom happens in this league. It has been historically a pretty congenial bunch. And being a head to head league I can't see anyone giving up too early. It's not in the league dna and a lot can change as the season progresses (see Lee and Stroman). Do you wish to be recorded as veto con or no vote?
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Mar 11, 2015 6:46:31 GMT -8
Post by revchris8 on Mar 11, 2015 6:46:31 GMT -8
Personally, I'm disappointed to have all this kick off just after joining the league. It's nice to see the thinking behind the trade, even though I disagree with pretty much everything rocketdwm says regarding the valuation of the players. Rookies valuation is much closer to mine - IMO Bwanna has received by far - by far - the best of this deal, and not just for this year. But that's what is it about - player valuation - which is so hard to agree on. I think this trade is unbalanced; clearly rocketdwm thinks it is fair. And so I can't veto it, even though it seems like it makes 2015 tough for anyone to beat Bwanna. I do hope, though, that this doesn't result in other teams giving up for 2015. That was the main reason, I think, that my last dynasty league folded - some guys were giving up by May and trading their superstars for prospects well before the ASB. Lots of people lost interest and it ended up killing the league. Really hope the same doesn't happen here. Two things Rev.....this type of disagreement seldom happens in this league. It has been historically a pretty congenial bunch. And being a head to head league I can't see anyone giving up too early. It's not in the league dna and a lot can change as the season progresses (see Lee and Stroman). Do you wish to be recorded as veto con or no vote? That's reassuring! Yes, I think you're right about H2H making a difference. And sorry, I didn't make it clear did I? My vote is an abstain/no vote.
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ThirdDay
Full Member
Will there be baseball in heaven?
Posts: 181
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Trades
Mar 11, 2015 6:55:28 GMT -8
Post by ThirdDay on Mar 11, 2015 6:55:28 GMT -8
Pro Veto...1 Con Veto...2 Non Vote...1 (Abstain)
10 responses would be appreciated.
Six pro veto votes are needed to overturn the trade. A non vote is the same as a no vote. Please vote (yes, no, not voting) so that we can come to a resolution in a reasonable amount of time.
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Trades
Mar 11, 2015 8:37:27 GMT -8
Post by jakeharv88 on Mar 11, 2015 8:37:27 GMT -8
Hey bwanna I said the trade was crap but that there was nothing we could legitimately do about it . I'm also in the no vetoes unless collusion and anyone that colludes in a non-money league is...well...dumb. It's a no veto for me.
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